I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it.

Against some it's being reduced (mostly by a very minute amount); against others, it's being increased. But sure, that's actually the only reasonable complaint and it is completely different from the whole SP/time/onozCCPdidn'tsendmeanemail complaint that people bring up.

Against anyone who has the skills trained at a lower level than you do.

Probably the word GÇ£trainingGÇ¥ in GÇ£training advantageGÇ¥.
To get the same advantages as you have now, people will in the future have to train for longer.

Yes, but the training required to get that performance will increase, and so will the gaps between the different stages of having the skills trained.

If your using drones you got the advantage of the extra medium drone damage the whole time. If your not actually using drones why do you care and why on earth bother training it. Or do people just collect SP for the sake of it ?

meh ... CCP may well reimburse and if they do fine. Free SP is good SP as you can allocate to skills that kinda suck on your current remap and get 8 days for 7 days. However whining on forums and throwing tantrums is if anything going to make it LESS likely,

Just a quick question here. Based on Tippia's chart, it looks like if I get Scout Drone Operation to V before the change, I will be rewarded with 3 skills at level V. Is that correct? Or is there something else I need to do to get max advantage from this change?

Uh, Command Ships didn't give people an SP advantage. It's actually faster for a new player to train to CS than it was before. And the pre-skills are useful in any ship when a squad commander now. At least know what you are talking about when you complain about things.

So how much does the Gecko lose in DPS when the skill change happens?

You didn't lose anything. Someone with SDO 5 and CDO 5 with retain all of the perks they currently have after the update. No bonuses were lost by you.

Those learning skills were not replaced by an equal or greater number of different skills.

Yes you did.
You lost the ability to increase your attributes through skill bonuses.

Since that ability was gone, you got back the SP that only served the purpose of providing that ability.

We have numerous precedents from CCP to show that this isn't a problem. Loss of advantage does not constitute a need for reimbursement. Please see: The scanning overhaul, Astrometrics, and Astrometric Rangefinding in particular. People that had Astro 5/rangefinding 5 lost alot of advantage compared to people that only had astro 4 and **** support skills post odyssey. No reimbursement occurred.

No. They could have removed the ability and let you keep the useless skills. Instead, they removed the ability to gain additional attribute points and, since the skills no longer served any purpose, you got your training time back.
It was also only compensated once: by the SP reimbursement.

The increase in attributes was not an ability: it was an across-the-board stat boost that was wholly disconnected from all kinds of abilities or skills.

That's exactly what they're doing: the abilities you trained for are being preserved. The only difference is that, as it happens, the straightened-out skill path means that some abilities will now be coupled with different abilities than before.

It can't be done the way they did with learning skills because in that case, there was no preservation of ability since the whole point of the change was to remove that ability. Instead, you got your time back. Getting your time back doesn't make sense in this case because the abilities can be (and are being) preserved. After all, the abilities themselves don't actually change GÇö they're just being moved around on the skill tree.

That's not an ability, though, nor was it preserved. Training is a core mechanic; the ability removed was the method to speed it up.

SoGǪ really, it's the SDO V guys that should be reimbursed because of their lost ability?


It was the exact same kind of GÇ£advantageGÇ¥ as people are talking about here, and no skill is being rendered useless. Some advantages were simply had through different means than before and people ended up with equal ability where they previously were equal. Even so, the guiding principle was that no ability was lost GÇö if you happened to gain some in the process, then good for you.

It definitely keeps it from being an ability, unless you also consider things like opening the market window or looking at the star map an ability. It's not something that characterises a character or account GÇö it's just a basic functionality. And again, the actual ability in question was not preserved. That's why the skills were reimbursed: because the ability they were meant to provide had been removed, and since that rendered the skills pointless, they were removed too.

The SP reimbursement was for skills that no longer provided the ability they were supposed to, since that ability was removed from the game. Had the skills been revamped into something different, there might not have been a reimbursement since your training would still have afforded you some kind of ability that set your character apart from others.

GǪand in doing so, the ability to alter your training speeds was replaced by a fixed increase in all training speeds everywhere. At best, a parallel could be drawn between that ability and the remap mechanic, but that one is more accurately a replacement for the static bloodline bonuses.

WeeellGǪ it had a value. It just didn't make up for the costs it incurred in terms of player annoyance and follow-on effects.

Yes. That was my point: the ability could not be compensated for, so the skills became worthless and had to be reimbursed. I'm answering what you said about how the skills were doubly compensated GÇö I'm saying they were only compensated once (through the SP reimbursement).

I think we might have one of those GÇ£aggressively agreeingGÇ¥ situations here.

ah, but cdo gives 5% drone damage per level. training sdo has never given 5% damage per level.

we don't have anyone complaining that everyone who trained sdo5 and cdo0 is getting free 25% drone damage, do we?

i think it's hilarious is what it's got to do with this

it's players who trained mining barge v to unlock orcas complaining that someone else can unlock orcas without mining barge v.

in both cases, it's players whining that another player will be able to do something the speaker can already do with a little less training, and demanding reimbursement

Those "social skills" were removed from the game. There was 5 and they were reduced to 3.

False!

i have already argued longer than it took me to train it. I used SP from learning skills to bump both SDO and CDO to level 5.